Questions about melanotan, tanning beds and sun-screen/block/lotion?

[ddiipp]

Just to preface this: I first obtained and used melanotan 2 back around May or June. I was injecting around 0.25mg at first and went up to ~0.5mg soon after. It's tough to remember the entire timeline of how much I took, for how long, etc.. but it seemed adequate enough to me at the time, especially after reading recommendations online.

However, when I got some sun naturally/outdoors (2-3 times) I never really developed a tan. (I have dark brown hair with very pale skin by the way.)

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Anyway, I really need some color now but summer is over here in Canada and my only option is indoor tanning (tanning beds).

How much MT2 should I load, leading up to going for the first time? I've taken 0.5mg the past 2 days. And about 2 weeks ago I did 0.25mg twice and 0.5mg another two times. Also, I'm about this pale right now (http://i.imgur.com/pXnRLZu) looking to get no darker than this color (http://imgur.com/9fxwkAk).

Also, I've never used a tanning bed. So I have a lot of questions about that. 1. Do I use sunscreen? Or sunblock? (there's a difference between the two) 2. And at what SPF number? Or is there a special indoor tanning thing I have to use? I would research some of this online, but wouldn't the process be different for people like us who are using melanotan and can still get a tan while being much safer? As opposed to most stuff out there that's written under the assumption of people not using any melanotan.

Will any type of tanning bed do? Are there lower strength and higher strength ones? I'm also looking for one I can stand in, rather than lay down..

Any help would be much appreciated! Thanks

[AnnTan]

I've only been using Melanotan for this week so I'm a complete newbie at that, but I do have a lot of experience with indoor tanning. I don't think there's really anything special to do as far as Melanotan in tanning beds.

At least in America there are stand up beds in addition to lay down ones. Just call around to figure out which ones have them.

What I've been doing is putting on a tanning intensifier lotion on all over my exposed skin right before I get in the bed. You can also use regular lotion but it's not quite as good. I think it helped me get a lot more color from each session even before I started Melanotan.

Make sure to get eye protection (they usually sell little googles made for tanning at the place).

As far as how long to tan, ask the people at the desk and tell them you have a hard time tanning and really don't want to burn. They'll tell you how long to tan for your first time. Melanotan doesn't prevent you from burning, it just helps you tan better. The tan you get is what protects your skin. So right now you can still burn as easy as you normally do. You can slowly work your way up to longer times in the bed, but you really want to try not to burn at this stage so take it slow! I've been going every other day and it's worked well so far! But I do tan relatively easily compared to some others.

Make sure to wear clothes that are easy to take on and off, and ones you don't mind sweating into!

[111kg]

I don't have any experience with melanotan, but I can give you some advice: don't use the tanning beds. It's proven that it can lead to skin cancer... and trust me, the worst type of cancer you can have is skin cancer.

See for yourself: http://www.webmd.com/melanoma-skin-cancer/features/the-skin-cancer-risk-from-tanning-beds

[peptideguru]

I don't have any experience with melanotan, but I can give you some advice: don't use the tanning beds. It's proven that it can lead to skin cancer... and trust me, the worst type of cancer you can have is skin cancer.

See for yourself: http://www.webmd.com/melanoma-skin-cancer/features/the-skin-cancer-risk-from-tanning-beds

That is an anecdotal report linking one person, who had used sunbeds, to a cancerous mole. Nowhere in the report is there proof that the sun beds caused it. The site itself admitted commercial bias and uses its articles to push their products.

The truth of it is that it's safe in moderation and as long as you follow good practices you're fine. Sun beds have been limited to 0.3W/m2, which is roughly the same as tropical midday sun.
Would you go on holiday and sit in the sun for prolonged periods with no sun cream? The same is true for beds. Only use them for 3-6 minutes a time, wear SPF15/30. As your tan develops you're less susceptible to UV radiation, that is the function of it.
Once your tan develops then you can up it to 6-9 minutes, but sun cream is still advised like you would on holiday.

As AnnTan said, the operators of your specific beds will know the power of their beds, will know basics about your skin and should have been trained in the proper use of the beds. They will be able to tell you how long is ideal for you specifically - or whether not to tan at all in some cases (vitiligo, UV sensitivity, etc).
If the people there don't know anything, or can't let you talk to someone who is, go somewhere else.

[111kg]

I beg to differ.
Since there is a proven link between tanning beds and skin cancer, why would anyone risk? The thing is that you know theoretically than sun beds have been limited to 0.3w/m2, but you can't know for sure. I mean, there is no way you can actually measure. What if there is a malfunction? What if you are prone to skin cancer and you don't know it yet? We know about this disease that one of the risk factors is a positive family history for melanoma.

From my point of view, they are a big no no and please don't get mad if I share these points of view on this forum. There are lots of youtube videos and studies that tell the same thing and, as a future doctor, I HAVE to tell anyone about the risks.

[pwarbi]

For MT to be most effective you have to also use the tanning beds because the amount of UV you get depends on how well the MT will work.

Linking tanning beds to cancer as been a story that's been around a while now, and while I'm not saying there isn't a connection, personally I think the risk is over exaggerated to be honest.

[peptideguru]

I beg to differ.
Since there is a proven link between tanning beds and skin cancer, why would anyone risk? The thing is that you know theoretically than sun beds have been limited to 0.3w/m2, but you can't know for sure. I mean, there is no way you can actually measure. What if there is a malfunction? What if you are prone to skin cancer and you don't know it yet? We know about this disease that one of the risk factors is a positive family history for melanoma.

From my point of view, they are a big no no and please don't get mad if I share these points of view on this forum. There are lots of youtube videos and studies that tell the same thing and, as a future doctor, I HAVE to tell anyone about the risks.

I'm not getting mad, but you are spreading misleading information based on opinion.

In the same sense you shouldn't go on holiday or go outside during summer.
By law machines are limited to 0.3W/m2, and they need to be maintained (checked an bulbs changed) periodically and inspections carried out by an independent body.

If used sensibly they are no worse than the sun.

[111kg]

I'm not getting mad, but you are spreading misleading information based on opinion.

In the same sense you shouldn't go on holiday or go outside during summer.
By law machines are limited to 0.3W/m2, and they need to be maintained (checked an bulbs changed) periodically and inspections carried out by an independent body.

If used sensibly they are no worse than the sun.

Maybe in your country, but this doesn't mean it's happening everywhere in the world.
Here, let me give you some resources:

1. http://www.cdc.gov/cancer/skin/basic_info/indoor_tanning.htm

"Using a tanning bed, booth, or sunlamp to get tan is called indoor tanning. Indoor tanning can cause skin cancers including melanoma (the deadliest type of skin cancer), basal cell carcinoma, and squamous cell carcinoma. Exposure to ultraviolet (UV) radiation also can cause cataracts and cancers of the eye (ocular melanoma)."

"A 2014 study by Wehner and colleagues estimated that more than 400,000 cases of skin cancer may be related to indoor tanning in the United States each year—causing 245,000 basal cell carcinomas, 168,000 squamous cell carcinomas, and 6,000 melanomas."

400,000 cases of skin cancer potentially linked to tanning beds!!

Moreover,
Brazil and five out of six states in Australia have banned indoor tanning.
Austria, Belgium, Finland, France, Germany, Iceland, Italy, Norway, Portugal, Spain, and the United Kingdom have banned indoor tanning for people younger than age 18.

If that was safe, why would anyone ban an industry that brings a lot of money?

At what point you are able to tell that you use the tanning beds moderately and how do you know it's not too much specifically for your body?

2. http://www.fda.gov/ForConsumers/ConsumerUpdates/ucm186687.htm

"the risk of melanoma of the skin increasing by 75 percent when tanning bed use started before age 35"

WOAH!!

There is plenty of evidence against these machines. Keep in mind that you know about phisiology and the risk of developing certain diseases, but most of the people don't know.

[peptideguru]

Maybe in your country, but this doesn't mean it's happening everywhere in the world.
Here, let me give you some resources:

1. http://www.cdc.gov/cancer/skin/basic_info/indoor_tanning.htm

400,000 cases of skin cancer potentially linked to tanning beds!!

Potentially. However, from Cancer Research UK;

"Ultraviolet (UV) radiation from the sun is the main potentially avoidable risk factor for skin cancer, linked to an estimated 86% of malignant melanoma cases in the UK."

And yes, you are more likely to develop skin cancer if you have used sun beds but correlation != causation. What is actually the cause is "major lifestyle" factors, meaning that people who have use sunbeds in their life are considerably more likely to have reckless tendencies when tanning.

Moreover,
Brazil and five out of six states in Australia have banned indoor tanning.
Austria, Belgium, Finland, France, Germany, Iceland, Italy, Norway, Portugal, Spain, and the United Kingdom have banned indoor tanning for people younger than age 18.

If that was safe, why would anyone ban an industry that brings a lot of money?

At what point you are able to tell that you use the tanning beds moderately and how do you know it's not too much specifically for your body?

2. http://www.fda.gov/ForConsumers/ConsumerUpdates/ucm186687.htm



WOAH!!

There is plenty of evidence against these machines. Keep in mind that you know about phisiology and the risk of developing certain diseases, but most of the people don't know.

The bans in place are for under 18s; not a ban on industry. This is in a similar manner to other age restricted goods and services.
The only countries to instate a full ban are Australia and Brazil, to little effect.
This is why education is so important, rather than saying "you shouldn't do this, it's bad" you could say "to do this safely, you should...".
Guidelines are present for tanning, and basically surmise what I advise.
Tan for the shortest amount of time possible the first few trips, slowly increasing exposure as a tan develops.
Use a sun cream if you are particularly pale and make sure you never burn.

Most people are unaware of the risks, but that's why we should educate them. Banning something because of potential risk is folly, Australia is a prime example.
Many 'underground' tanning booths have popped up around the country. Members only clubs, and people rigging them up in their houses. Who maintains and regulates those? This is where the real issues will be caused.

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I don't want to seem like I'm having a go; I just love a good debate!
Tom


EDIT: Noticed your section about 5/6 states of AUS bit, I misread that thinking you meant US states - so ignore my part about that! Don't want to edit it out in case it's been read. :p

[innaf93]

Tanning can be good in small amounts. Like everything, in very small amounts. The problem is with the people who can't say no and can't stop. Tanning bed can cure flu and same small illnesses because of the warmth.

[ddiipp]

@innaf93 Yeah that's the thing. I am already hesitant enough about tanning beds (I'd prefer outdoors, but are indoor beds really that much worse? Anyone?)


Ideally I'd only like to go once or twice and that's it. I wouldn't be going several times a month like people who don't use melanotan do.

I've heard of people loading up on melanotan and after 1 session they're already noticeably much more tan. I think that would be ideal.

[AnnTan]

The reason we're told to avoid tanning indoors is the same reason we shouldn't be out in the sun. UV exposure. Most of us are willing to go outside even though it's known that the UV exposure from the sun is one of the biggest and most well demonstrated triggers for skin cancer. Tanning beds do essentially the same thing as the sun, but at least in a controlled environment so you never burn. You get far more tan for much less total time being exposed to UV rays. I've never seen any evidence that sunbeds are worse than the sun. We know they're worse for you than not tanning, but we know that about sun exposure too.

You can spend your life worried about UV exposure and live your life under hats and umbrellas, but for me life is too short.

One of my friends who's most against tanning beds actually tans outside and smokes cigarettes. She chooses to enjoy something with risks. We all make our choices about what's worth it.

[ddiipp]

^ Thanks for the reply again. It's weird to think about (for me at least) because throughout my life I've had absolutely no hesitation whatsoever sitting out in the sun (with sunscreen/block of course), but I've always been very hesitant about a tanning bed. I guess it's the whole "natural" aspect that makes me think it's not as bad.

It does makes sense they would be about the same difference though - but the one thing that probably made me hesitant was reading some claims (myths?) about how indoor tanning/beds could be worse.

[peptideguru]

As AnnTan said, they are the same in terms of UV exposure. However, you need to make sure that the salon you use carries out regular maintenance on the machine and carries out bulb changes to the manufacture's standards.

When ran correctly (by the law of most places), a machine will put out 0.3W/m2. This is equivalent to tropical sun. Once the bulbs pass a certain age they will start to put out more UV than safe levels, it's generally around 6-12 months but varies.

When run under these guidelines they are equal to the sun in terms of harmful rays - and are actually safer in many ways.
Most places will recommend times and limits for you (usually around the 12-15 minute mark), should offer you free goggles (or sell you your own) and will be able to give you information and help if you need it.
All things people don't do when on holiday, spending hours a day on the beach in the sun as a prime example.

[111kg]

Potentially. However, from Cancer Research UK;

And yes, you are more likely to develop skin cancer if you have used sun beds but correlation != causation. What is actually the cause is "major lifestyle" factors, meaning that people who have use sunbeds in their life are considerably more likely to have reckless tendencies when tanning.



The bans in place are for under 18s; not a ban on industry. This is in a similar manner to other age restricted goods and services.
The only countries to instate a full ban are Australia and Brazil, to little effect.
This is why education is so important, rather than saying "you shouldn't do this, it's bad" you could say "to do this safely, you should...".
Guidelines are present for tanning, and basically surmise what I advise.
Tan for the shortest amount of time possible the first few trips, slowly increasing exposure as a tan develops.
Use a sun cream if you are particularly pale and make sure you never burn.

Most people are unaware of the risks, but that's why we should educate them. Banning something because of potential risk is folly, Australia is a prime example.
Many 'underground' tanning booths have popped up around the country. Members only clubs, and people rigging them up in their houses. Who maintains and regulates those? This is where the real issues will be caused.

---

I don't want to seem like I'm having a go; I just love a good debate!
Tom


EDIT: Noticed your section about 5/6 states of AUS bit, I misread that thinking you meant US states - so ignore my part about that! Don't want to edit it out in case it's been read. :p

I do agree with you on some parts. However, even if correlation doesn't necessarily involve causation, it can lead to. This is can lead to, and I think that you agree with me. The biggest trouble is that you can't know for sure at what point correlation leads to causation. Depending on a lot of factors, it can be after a very short exposure. Keep in mind that most of the people don't use a tanning bed only once, but rather multiple times a month in certain seasons.

I don't know, maybe it's safe for 90% of the people who use the tanning beds moderately (although I highly doubt it), but as long as there isn't any certainty and a lot of evidence against it, I wouldn't use them for all the money in the world.

PS: I love a good debate too.

[peptideguru]

I do agree with you on some parts. However, even if correlation doesn't necessarily involve causation, it can lead to. This is can lead to, and I think that you agree with me. The biggest trouble is that you can't know for sure at what point correlation leads to causation. Depending on a lot of factors, it can be after a very short exposure. Keep in mind that most of the people don't use a tanning bed only once, but rather multiple times a month in certain seasons.

I don't know, maybe it's safe for 90% of the people who use the tanning beds moderately (although I highly doubt it), but as long as there isn't any certainty and a lot of evidence against it, I wouldn't use them for all the money in the world.

PS: I love a good debate too.

I do agree with you; on a psychological level many people who frequent sun beds also lead on to more reckless tanning in the future.
However, most places (definitely in the UK and at least beginning to elsewhere) will log your usage of their devices. When you sign up you'll fill in a form about your skin type and a few other things. Every time you go in they'll log it, and how long you used them for. If you exceed a certain amount of time, based on the power of their beds (they can be less than 0.3W/m2 but not over), and are obligated to turn you away.

Figures for the US seem to be a little higher. 3.5m cases diagnosed a year, 419,000 due to indoor tanning - or around 12%.
However, when you consider that 30m people use indoor tanning every year, that is only 1.4% of users developing a form of skin cancer. (from skincancer.org)


There is still a long way to go in many places, however, with careful use they can still be enjoyed responsibly for those who can't get natural UV exposure for things like MT2 - as it doesn't work as well when used 'sunless'.

[111kg]

I do agree with you; on a psychological level many people who frequent sun beds also lead on to more reckless tanning in the future.
However, most places (definitely in the UK and at least beginning to elsewhere) will log your usage of their devices. When you sign up you'll fill in a form about your skin type and a few other things. Every time you go in they'll log it, and how long you used them for. If you exceed a certain amount of time, based on the power of their beds (they can be less than 0.3W/m2 but not over), and are obligated to turn you away.

Figures for the US seem to be a little higher. 3.5m cases diagnosed a year, 419,000 due to indoor tanning - or around 12%.
However, when you consider that 30m people use indoor tanning every year, that is only 1.4% of users developing a form of skin cancer. (from skincancer.org)


There is still a long way to go in many places, however, with careful use they can still be enjoyed responsibly for those who can't get natural UV exposure for things like MT2 - as it doesn't work as well when used 'sunless'.

In Romania, my country, there are no such regulations. And I think that it's the same in many other countries. From the business owners point of view, you can become a bloody hamburger on the tanning bed, they don't really care as long as you pay.

And by the way (I am just curious), what stops the people in UK from going to another center to use tanning beds?

Interesting articles on this topic:
1) http://www.apextribune.com/skin-cancer-rates-are-up-for-gay-men-due-to-tanning-beds/211357/
2) http://www.slate.com/blogs/xx_factor/2015/09/22/tanning_salons_attract_teenage_girls_with_the_promise_of_confidence_not.html

And this is how you sign up for Darwin's Awards: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-3263490/Nurse-used-sunbeds-30-minutes-DAY-father-s-tanning-salon-inoperable-skin-cancer-aged-43.html

[AnnTan]

In Romania, my country, there are no such regulations. And I think that it's the same in many other countries. From the business owners point of view, you can become a bloody hamburger on the tanning bed, they don't really care as long as you pay.

From what you're saying it definitely definitely sounds like you should avoid indoor tanning in Romania! In America the type of thing you're saying can get you in huge legal trouble, and you could get sued and have to pay damages to everyone who was injured! I would never step foot in a sunbed if I knew there were no regulations!

[pwarbi]

A lot of people that use tanning beds a couple of times a well for example do tend to get addicted to them and start going more and more often. They like the effect it as on their body and also enjoy the relaxing experience they have.

While that's not the case for everyone, it's certainly something to be cautious of and remember to stick to safe amounts of UV exposure.

[peptideguru]

In Romania, my country, there are no such regulations. And I think that it's the same in many other countries. From the business owners point of view, you can become a bloody hamburger on the tanning bed, they don't really care as long as you pay.

And by the way (I am just curious), what stops the people in UK from going to another center to use tanning beds?

Interesting articles on this topic:
1) http://www.apextribune.com/skin-cancer-rates-are-up-for-gay-men-due-to-tanning-beds/211357/
2) http://www.slate.com/blogs/xx_factor/2015/09/22/tanning_salons_attract_teenage_girls_with_the_promise_of_confidence_not.html

And this is how you sign up for Darwin's Awards: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-3263490/Nurse-used-sunbeds-30-minutes-DAY-father-s-tanning-salon-inoperable-skin-cancer-aged-43.html

First link is misrepresentation of data - or figures plucked from thin air. Opening sentence states 400,000 deaths due to skin cancer from indoor tanning; that's wrong. 419,000 people get skin cancer a year from indoor tanning, only around and around 3000 die from it a year - both indoor and outdoor.
Second and third links are pretty interesting, and it does appear many areas are still having issues. The third article is also mentioning historic and long running abuse of sunbeds - using them for 30 minutes a day for the last 20 years. This is before more regulations were put into place. She also blames the sun beds for her problems, but they aren't to blame - she is. It's like an alcoholic blaming the alcohol for their issues, but in reality many millions of people enjoy alcohol sensibly in their daily lives.

The other issue you raise is a good one, as somebody could frequent different places. I believe there are steps being put into place to make a central database, however I'm not sure how far away that is - if it ever comes.
The thing is, if people will go to those lengths then a ban wouldn't solve that anyway. They can get one in their home, and as I said with AUS, people will find generally take it 'underground' and cause more issues.