MT-1 dosing questions

[poiuytr]

Previously I had asked about MT-1 nasal spray, but so far it seems the MT-1 nasal spray isn't effective, probably due to the larger doses needed and larger size compared to MT-2.

So I've decided to go with MT-1 injections instead. How much should I be dosing per day? I've read online to start at 1mg a day and go up to 2-3mg per day, but a lot of clinical trials (such as this one http://archderm.jamanetwork.com/arti...ticleid=480676 ) mention using .16 mg/kg, which for me is over 8mg a day. Is injecting that much safe? I'm planning to inject twice a day due to the short life of MT-1, if that makes any difference.

Also, once I get to a maintenance stage, how much / often should I be dosing? I can't seem to find a lot of dosing info on MT-1 outside of clinical trials, it seems MT-2 is generally preferred.

[peptideguru]

Recommend dosages starting from 1mg (500mcg twice daily) for Melanotan 1 due to the lower side effects associated with it. After 2-4 days increase to 1.5mg (750mcg twice daily) and stick at this point. If you wish to increase the dose further, do so slowly.

[Rico]

OK, I figured out a way to post the image lol... Now, the green date indicates that yesterday was my 1st dosage (ever). So, this schd for me personally is how I believe things should work, but we'll see how my body tolerates the schd. both in effects & side effects, which could make me adjust things a bit (one thing I can foresee is that perhaps that 2mg is too much either in general or too much during the maint. phase... time will tell).

Dose&Schd.jpg

Ratio:
10mg vial of Melanotan-1 [MT-1] mixed with:
1ml of water
will provide a solution of:
10mg per 1ml (10mg/ml)

I personally put 2ml of Bac water into the vial so that it's easier to measure the volumes (dial in the accuracy within the syringe).
This May perhaps also yield better tolerance at injection site (less irritation/itching) since the dilution ratio is higher.
PS While on the subject of itching, be sure to wait 20min or more for syringe solution to reach room temp before injecting

[peptideguru]

OK, I figured out a way to post the image lol... Now, the green date indicates that yesterday was my 1st dosage (ever too). So, this schd for me personally is how I believe things should work, but we'll see how my body tolerates the schd. both in effects & side effects, which could make me adjust things a bit (one thing I can foresee is that perhaps that 2mg is too much either in general or too much during the maint. phase... time will tell).

Ratio:
10mg vial of Melanotan-1 mixed with:
1ml of water
will provide a solution of:
10mg per 1ml (10mg/ml)

I personally put 2ml of Bac water into the vial so that it's easier to measure the volumes (dial in the accuracy within the syringe).
This May perhaps also yield better tolerance at injection site (less irritation/itching) since the dilution ratio is higher.
PS While on the subject of itching, be sure to wait 20min or more for syringe solution to reach room temp before injecting

That looks okay, many find 2mg daily to be too much - although doing 750mcg twice daily injections is normally better due to the short half life.
Some people find bac water stings a little, but not really worth noticing.
It will also only take 20-30 seconds to reach room temp if you hold it in your hand, due the the minuscule volume of water.

[poiuytr]

Thanks for sharing your dosing chart. My dosing confusion has been that I found different values; most sites recommend 1-2mg per day, but most clinical trials I have read use much larger amounts (0.08mg/kg to .16mg/kg). I think I answered my question though, here is a chart that shows the plasma level for a single injection of .08, .16, and .21mg/kg.

9.jpg

For the lowest dose of .08mg/kg, the amount of MT-1 in plasma peaks to about 300ng/ml. According to this presentation by Clinuvel, on page 6 (Drug delivery), their implant only maxes out at 100 ng/ml. Then, on page 8 (Drug level and melanin density), it looks the plasma level is only at 100 ng/ml for a brief time; most of the time it's much less. It looks like the chart has been normalized, and there's no value for the y-axis, but I'm assuming the peak is 100 ng/ml, so everything else would just be relative to that peak.

So it looks like the large doses from the clinical trials I have been reading are not necessary. However, since the half life is so short, I could see dosing 4-5 times a day to keep a small constant dose. That MT-2 half life of 33 hours is looking pretty good about now

[Rico]

Wait a sec... am I right that 100ng = 0.000100000000000 milligrams (mg)?? And if the half life of MT-2 is 33hrs, just what exactly then would it be for [MT-1]? I mean, I realize Clinuvel's product is control release (CR), bust still.. if my math is right, theirs is soooo low even at 300ng? This makes me think Guru's suggestion of dosing 2x/day is not only better but may be necessary. Has anyone seen the results they want using my dosing schedule above is now my question (even if it takes longer to achieve)?

Thanks.... Time for my next mosquito bite...

[poiuytr]

I don't think Clinuvel's implant ever exceeds 100ng/ml (in your plasma across your entire body, not your injection amount, based on what was in their slide). I was using the plasma chart to estimate when an injection of Xmg MT-1 would wear off, since looking at the chart, it seems fairly linear. I think the half life of MT-1 is 1-2 hours, which is why it's best to inject shortly before getting UV exposure. I'm not an expert at any of this, I'm just trying to piece together stuff I find online. If peptideguru says your chart is good, you're fine.

[poiuytr]

I misread the plasma chart, it's not .08mg/kg - .21mg/kg, it's .008mg/kg - .021mg/kg, so the recommended daily dose of .016mg/kg for me would be about 1mg. The chart was for a clinical trial where only 1 dose was given per day, so peptideguru's suggestion of 2 daily doses of 750mcg is spot on. Sorry for causing so much confusion, I misread the amounts and then spread that misinformation. My apologies.

Side note, now that I *think* I understand it properly, all the clinical trials I read used a single daily injection of .008mg/kg to .016mg/kg, and they all had excellent results (especially with the .016mg/kg dosing), so you should be fine just dosing once daily, but I think you might get slightly better results from doing it twice.

[Rico]

I misread the plasma chart, it's not .08mg/kg - .21mg/kg, it's .008mg/kg - .021mg/kg, so the recommended daily dose of .016mg/kg for me would be about 1mg. The chart was for a clinical trial where only 1 dose was given per day, so peptideguru's suggestion of 2 daily doses of 750mcg is spot on. Sorry for causing so much confusion, I misread the amounts and then spread that misinformation. My apologies.

Side note, now that I *think* I understand it properly, all the clinical trials I read used a single daily injection of .008mg/kg to .016mg/kg, and they all had excellent results (especially with the .016mg/kg dosing), so you should be fine just dosing once daily, but I think you might get slightly better results from doing it twice.

So cool "poiuytr"! Thanks for your interest, it's helping give me confidence with [MT-1]. So, what about yourself, when you taking the plunge (puns, puns)?

[Rico]

That looks okay, many find 2mg daily to be too much - although doing 750mcg twice daily injections is normally better due to the short half life.
Some people find bac water stings a little, but not really worth noticing.
It will also only take 20-30 seconds to reach room temp if you hold it in your hand, due the the minuscule volume of water.

Thanks for that feedback Guru!
Well, yeah... I can certainly say that the bac water causes itching the likes of a bad mosquito bite for about 30-45 minutes. I wonder if there's an alternative solution, like saline?? That would not sting I'm sure.

Thanks for the half-life comment. Because I get so much anxiety over the injection process... I'm not sure I see myself doing two of them, so I may just have to roll with the proposed schedule and see how things develop?
Also, I should probably mention that I'm planning to tan in the natural sun for 20-30min once a week (which makes me pink for 2 days normally). Will that suffice to allow results to be seen? I've been doing this for 3mo now (w/out MT-1) and I'm just now finally approaching decency on my stomach and chest, but face and all else is still very white lol.

BTW, for those reading this... I'm a Skin type 1.5 hahaaa. Dark brown hair. One thing I do wonder is if my grey hair on my chin will turn darker (I'm expecting not).

PS You're certainly right about the 20-30 seconds vs. minutes for warming to room temp on the syringe (while in-hand). I will just leave it on the table for 5min (lazy) from here forward...

[Oblivion]

The Clinuvel implant is 16mg and administered every 2 months for most of their trials. That equates to about .250mg per day. But this isn't for tanning, and the sustained release implant may have some benefits.

[poiuytr]

The effect of the implant lasts 2 months, but page 8 (Drug level and melanin density) of this presentation (http://clinuvel.com/resources/pdf/asx_announcements/2009/20090518CorpPres.pdf) seems to imply the entire 16mg is released over the first 7-10 days.

[Rico]

The effect of the implant lasts 2 months, but page 8 (Drug level and melanin density) of this presentation (http://clinuvel.com/resources/pdf/asx_announcements/2009/20090518CorpPres.pdf) seems to imply the entire 16mg is released over the first 7-10 days.

Right poiuytr, I would agree. It's CR, so it's certainly designed be a slow release... though 1.88mg average over 8.5 days (taking averages on days as well) is sooo high lol.. I'm 140lbs and the face flushing on today's (my 3rd dose of 1mg) is intense (expect it not to last more than 2hrs... we'll see). I'm keeping a log of symptoms which I'll be sure to publish as an adjunct to the schd I posted on the 1st day.

[poiuytr]

1.88mg definitely seems like too much to inject at once, but Clinuvel's implant steadily releases it over the day, so it would only be ~78mcg per hour, and due to the short half life, it wouldn't build up too much. To answer your previous question I missed, I plan on starting whenever my MT-1 arrives. I previously tried it in a nasal spray, but it wasn't effective.

[Oblivion]

The effect of the implant lasts 2 months, but page 8 (Drug level and melanin density) of this presentation (http://clinuvel.com/resources/pdf/asx_announcements/2009/20090518CorpPres.pdf) seems to imply the entire 16mg is released over the first 7-10 days.

Yes, you're correct. The implant is effective for 2 months either because the melanin takes a while to go back to normal, or for some unknown mechanism (that is dependent on the disease it is being tested for). But the actual release of the drug is 1-2 weeks.

[Oblivion]

Would you guys who have used MT-1 be able to PM a good source for the USA? I'm mostly concerned about quality over anything else. Thanks.

[Rico]

I have a basic question. Which of the following needles would you guys suggest be used (I have practically zero body fat if that matters)? I'm currently using the 3rd of the following three options below at a 45 degree angle.

BD Micro Fine+ 0.3ml Insulin Syringe & Needle 30g x 8mm
BD Micro Fine+ 0.5ml Insulin Syringe & Needle 30g x 8mm
BD Micro Fine+ 1.0ml Insulin Syringe & Needle 29g x 12.7mm

[poiuytr]

If you have no body fat, you could go with the smaller needle (option 1 or 2). The larger the gauge size, the smaller the outside diameter, and therefore, the smaller the hole put in you.

[Rico]

Quite tired in general, seemingly apathetic as well... coupled with some slight fever/body ache symptoms (which is the most annoying/uncomfortable part). Though, no actual fever is present and the injection sites look/feel great. Any ideas?

Here's my log so far with symptom notes for each day.

Dose&Schd-Symp.jpg

[pampamparampam]

Hello. I have been using MT-1 for months now. I actually think you are doing good with your injection! You should definitely start with 1mg to condition your body. I did not follow any chart or what, but when I felt I can already take on additional mg, I decided to increase my dose to 1.5mg. Right now, I am already injecting 2mg a day. Sooner or later, once I am ready for it, I will increase my dose to 2.5 mg. So far, I am getting the tan that I want.